The ESPC Property Show: A Guide for First-time Buyers

Megan
Welcome to the ESPC Property Show. It's Megan and

Paul
it's Paul. Hello, we've done a switcheroo and yeah, it takes a bit of getting used to.

Megan
Yes, today's episode is one of our most popular topics from last season we're covering our first time buyer special.

Paul
We cover a lot of ground, don't we, I mean they they there's plenty of nuggets in there if you're a first time buyer. We talk about the market, they give you some top tips again the question of heart versus head comes up, you know, but it was really good episode.

Megan
Yeah, we, we really discuss breakdown, the process of of buying your home for the first time and I think, yeah, covering things like what you should ask at viewing and to how much money you should have saved. I think it's really valuable information and without further ado, we'll just pass over to the guys.

Paul
Here's the show.

Paul
We have two very special guests to talk about first time buyers. I will let the ladies introduce themselves. So to my to my right.

Amy
Oh, hi I'm Amy Howard. I'm from Neilson's solicitors and estate agents.

Paul
Good.

Caitlin
Hi, I'm Caitlin Keegan and I'm from Gillespie Macandrew solicitors and estate agents.

Paul
Welcome both, have you been on the show before? I'm trying to remember. I think no, we've done other things on camera, but that sounds a bit suspicious, but we certainly haven't been right. But welcome to the show. OK, well, I'll get the ball rolling. The first question. So first question, again this is all about first time buyers and it's trying to stand in the shoes of the first time buyer and give them some really good solid advice. So what's the first thing first time buyers should do when they decide they'd like to become a homeowner. So when they've made that decision, I think I know the answer to this, but I'll let you elaborate.

Amy
I would say appoint a solicitor. You cannot buy or sell property in Scotland without the services of a solicitor. So getting a good one at the outset is absolutely fundamental to how the whole process is gonna go. So getting quotes from different solicitors, finding one that you can trust, speak to the ESPC. We've got this incredible resource here in Edinburgh with the Property Information Centre that you can pop in and they will put you in touch with solicitors, ESPC member firms, chartered member firms who you know are adhering to certain quality standards as well. So getting a good solicitor from an ESPC chartered firm at the very outset I think think is a sensible first step and they can really help you put everything else in place.

Paul
Sure. That's a comprehensive answer. It is.

Caitlin
I totally agree. I think the other thing I would say is a good mortgage broker, like the guys here at the ESPC because you have to understand and I think it's really hard for first time buyers to get their head around, what their affordability is against what they can actually borrow. Yeah, because you know that you can afford a certain amount. But then it's based obviously on the home report value too. And I think for me, you know, as a solicitor speaking with clients, they really struggle with that and I think that's why they need a quality mortgage broker. And so somebody's looking at whole a market rather than just absolutely, yeah. I would always say the clients speak to a mortgage broker rather than just your bank because they deal with the whole markets, get the best rates for you and can help actually tailor do your situation because everybody's so different now. But I think, yeah, those two things would be key, right?

Paul
Great! We're three minutes in, we didn't rehearse. There's been two plugs for ESPC. This has gone really, it's gone really, really well. Can I just clarify that point then? So I think you were saying, Amy, go early talk to a solicitor estate agent early, when does the meter start running or when does the client expect to pay for some of these services is is that so?

Amy
So the great thing about the vast majority of ESPC member firms like Neilson's is that initial consultation's absolutely free of charge. You're not looking at paying fees until you're actually securing the property that you want to buy. So you can use that solicitor as a sounding board. You can get good quality, professional advice on what to offer for a property, what conditions to put in that offer if necessary, should it be subject to additional surveys or roof reports or damp inspections or whatever it might be. And and they'll give you all of that advice absolutely free of charge. So you know they're they're there to to be able to use them. And that's one of the great things about the Scottish system, where you're putting in an offer that's coming in writing from a solicitor, that solicitors representing you, the estate agent who's selling the property, is representing the seller. The seller's paying their fees. They're acting in the seller's best interests. By getting your own solicitor and your own independent advice, you're gonna be able to make a really well informed decision on what to buy.

Paul
Yeah, I mean, you're on the side of your clients, aren't you, Caitlin?

Caitlin
Absolutely, Yeah, absolutely. No, that's it. We work in their best interests and as Amy said you know estate agent whilst they're helpful and friendly and will give you advice they are ultimately acting for the seller and our job is to protect the purchaser's interest And and you know we do this all day, every day and for a first time buyer it's a it's a scary prospect and you're spending the biggest amount of money you'll ever spend. So you need somebody who knows the market has good knowledge and is able to explain things to you at a easy fashion. You know I've clients that said to me I don't understand what any of these legal things mean but that's our job we're that you know that's where they pay us.

Paul
You didn't say me too?!

Caitlin
No some days, some days but that's our job is to you know navigate them through it and help them understand it in the language they understand.

Paul
Sure understood. No good answer. Thank you.

Megan
So but many people are obviously saving up in order to buy a property. But how would a first time buyer know that they're in a position to buy? Like how would they know that they've reached their the right amount to come to market to to to look around.

Caitlin
I think it comes down to the affordability first and what they can afford. You know and the way to do that is speak to a mortgage broker like ESPC mortgages. I think understanding how much money you've got, what you're able to borrow, it helps then figure out all the other things like where you can afford to buy, you know, how much in terms of bedrooms and things like that. But I think the first part is really money. And then just getting somebody on board, you know, a solicitor to just get get your knowledge more in terms of area and things like that.

Amy
Yeah, I think as well, thinking about the money that you'll need in addition to your deposit and the purchase price of the property. The money that you'll need for land and buildings transaction tax. The money that you'll need for legal fees. The money you'll need for mortgage arrangement fees or if any, if any additional surveys might be needed to be carried out. Plus the kind of detail of fixtures and fittings and furniture that you'll need to buy, the council tax that you'll need to pay, potential factoring fees that you might need to pay your month, your monthly bills. Like all of these things, if you sit down with a mortgage broker at the very outset, they'll work out all of that for you so that you look at, you know, the lifestyle that you want to have, as well as the property that you want to have it in and what makes that affordable and sensible. And from there you can really work back to, well that means I've got X deposit and also looking at where that deposits coming from, if it's being gifted by a family member, what scrutiny is going to need to be applied to that money. You know those, those gifters will have to go through anti money laundering compliance and sort of teeing them up to do that so that there's a paper trail of where those funds are coming from. And getting all of that done at the outset will save you time and heartache later on as well.

Caitlin
And stress.

Amy
And stress. Stress for your solicitor as well.

Megan
Yeah, something I was going to ask as well. It's actually a question that my friend who's the first time buyer asked me last night, she was wondering. So she's got to have a help to buy ISA account and they obviously top up, I think it's 25% up to £12,000 I think.

Caitlin
Yes.

Megan
So she was asking can you use that additional that that money, does that have to go on the deposit or can that be used towards things like solicitors fees or you have to use the money from the deposit to buy the house.

Caitlin
So it has to form part of the price. So you have, but then you'll probably have savings from elsewhere that you can sort of divert elsewhere or say if you're getting a gift from parents, you could use that gift rather than for the deposit. You could use that for like furniture or for your tax or for different bits and pieces that you'll need. But the the Help to Buy bonus money has to be used for the purchase.

Megan
Yeah. OK No, that's great.

Paul
Ok so you've you've done your research. You've you've, you've, you've worked out your budget. You feel you can buy. Exciting. Which areas would you recommend to first time buyers? When we say recommend, I mean that you know that it's not a absolutely guarantee, but you know, where would you say?

Amy
It's tricky because again, it comes back to the lifestyle that you want to have as well as the property that you want to have it in. You could move much further out of the city centre and get a much bigger property. But if that means you're spending your life commuting back into the city centre to go to work, to see your friends, to to live, you know your lifestyle, then has it been worth it? Probably not. Probably buy something smaller in a more central location Is is the better answer. The other thing to consider is where you see yourself in two years, where you see yourself from five years. Are you planning a family? Are you planning on getting pets? What, what, How is that property going to work for you in, you know, the short and longer term as well? And I think that really helps him form a decision on where to buy. Edinburgh has loads of excellent areas for first time buyers. You know there's really great affordable areas. One of the things that I would recommend doing is looking along the tram line that the areas that are then really well connected, speedy access to the city centre. But you know out to the West where you've got a good choice of sort of ex local authority housing and things like that where you might get a bit more property for your money than you would by buying a smaller property in a more central location. But it's still really well connected is worth looking at. And obviously we've got the new tram extension down to to Newhaven now as well, really affordable areas like Granton and Newhaven that offer you a wonderful lifestyle with you know, waterfront amenities nearby and things like that that that are really worth looking into too.

Caitlin
Yeah, I think it's difficult too because the range what first time buyers now buy in is, is much bigger than it used to be. You know sort of when everybody years ago used to buy you sort of it was a pretty standard one bed flat, you know, they had a limited budget. It's so different now because people earn at varying degrees now and also a lot of people, a lot of first time buyers, you know, they get gifts from parents or they've inherited from grandparents or you know an aunt or something. So people end up having money they didn't necessarily expect to have which increases their budget, which is great. Definitely the Gillespie Macandrew, we see we have first time buyers, you know a sort of at you know the 200, three, 100,000 but we're also seeing ones at 5 to 600,000 you know so it's it depends on that and it obviously depends on your budget as then where you can buy. So I think it's very tailored to the actual person.

Paul
Yeah, yeah, I think you're right isn't it. It's a bit client interesting what you say though isn't it around think about where you want to be in three years time because there are quite a bit of expense when you when you buy now particularly if you're paying LBTT and the threshold and the like. So you know, you could send quite a few thousand in and then move in a year's time or two year time, pay early redemption penalty on your mortgage etcetera. And so all this needs to be considered again at the outset. Bit of a theme here about planning ahead.

Caitlin
It is, it's been well organized, isn't it really.

Paul
Yeah.

Amy
And you know it's probably going to be your biggest asset. So it makes sense to take time to think about it and consider it carefully.

Paul
Yeah. And when you think about how long you spend actually physically looking at the properties, not long is it?

Amy
Yeah, not long at all.

Caitlin
It really isn't. It's minutes for then splash. Yeah, you know a couple 100,000.

Paul
Yeah, I know. And then, you know, I was buying some money shoes too, but they only think I'll be in there 20 minutes, half an hour. Yeah. I mean, you don't got home reports on a pair of shoes. So there you go anyway.

Megan
So if first a buyer is heading out to view some properties, what are the questions that they should be asking at viewings when they're viewing properties.

Caitlin
Well there's so much to do!

Amy
Yeah, I mean, you could be there. They should be doing ahead of the viewing as well scrutinizing the home report because that might throw up things that you want to ask questions about. Reading carefully through the property questionnaire that's been completed by the sellers as well can can lead to to interesting questions. And I think that you know the the ones that I'd sort of thought about were the questions of the sellers on a kind of personal level from them. If you're meeting them, when is it that they want to move? Where is it that they're moving to? Find out about their move and their time scale and because that will help inform you what date of entry to put in your offer as as well as the amount of money that you're going to offer. You're going to be considering the date of entry that you'll offer them, and you might be able to make your offer more favourable by tweaking it to their circumstances. Also finding out about their reason for moving. You know, what are the neighbours like, what's the neighbourhood like? There might be great things about the neighbourhood that they've you know always walk to a local bakery on a Sunday morning and it's been a real lifestyle thing for them that you might not know about the area. So sort of really drilling into the things that they've loved about the property and worth finding out as well as the sort of more technical things about the building et cetera that the home report will throw up.

Caitlin
Yeah, I think so. I think first viewing it's, it's very much with the heart, isn't it, that where you're going in and you know I have clients for me, I love this. I have to have a two type thing and and then when you look at the home report and say well you know, they says maybe there's a 2 for damp. Did you see anything? And I know of a lot of first time buyers are like I don't know, you know and then you see things about you know some of the windows are sticking up. Did you open any of the windows and you know, I know it's sort of bringing them back down to earth slightly but those are the things that when they move in will annoy them straight away. So it's better, you know, it's easier for us to solicitors to be able to deal with those things upfront then after, you know, completion. So I I always say to my clients like you've absolutely loved it, but go back, go back with the head this time and and have a look around, open the windows, open the cupboard doors, you know, ask the technical questions as well because all the things are really important.

Paul
Yeah. So it's good advice. We, we, we debated a lot between the heart and the head, haven't we, about, you know, yeah. If I which does bring me on to this question and I think already started the answer this or I'll ask you anyway, If a first time buyer has fallen in love with a property, and I think what you're saying is don't fall in love with a property, how did they go about making the actual offer?

Caitlin
So if they've fallen in love with a property, I would always say you know, act quickly because whilst you know the market changes and sometimes it's a buyer's market, sometimes it's a seller's market, you know if you've fallen in love, there's high chance that maybe somebody else has fallen in love with it too.

Paul
Actually sorry, Caitlin, can I just ask you then, do you think that's at first viewing or you would you always advocate going back a second time?

Caitlin
It tends to vary for me from client to client. Some clients the for me say I've seen this property fall in love with it and when we talk through it, I can see that they've really checked everything, looked at everything, look, it's felt you know sorted through through if other clients I would say right, OK, well what do you think about this? And then sometimes they'll say they become a wee bit unsure, maybe during the call. So what we say is then why don't we note interest, get back on the phone arrange another view and as soon as possible because we don't want to miss out on this and then you know, take it from there.

Paul
And just for those that sorry, I mean, I'll come to you in a moment. But just for those that wouldn't be aware, noting interest means?

Caitlin
So noting interest is it doesn't oblige you to make an offer. But what it does is it tells the seller that you're seriously interested and are considering an offer should pull the marker down really. Exactly. And it's it lets the seller then keep you informed. You know, why does she have a note of interest? A seller can still accept an offer from another party, so it's really important to be clear on that. But at least you're letting the seller know that you're seriously interested.

Paul
OK, sorry.

Amy
I mean, I was gonna just say that about notes of interest that you know it's it's an intention to offer, but it's not. You know, you're not legally bound to do anything. Having noted interest, you don't have to put in an offer. You can withdraw your note of interest. Solicitors like Neilson's won't charge you for noting interest in a property either. So just getting that note in, it's almost like a holding, It is a holding ticket.

Paul
It's a good strategy.

Amy
It's a good strategy, yeah. And obviously your solicitor at that point can give you advice on the property at that stage as well. So if you have fallen in love with it, get on the phone to your solicitor straight away.

Caitlin
Yeah, absolutely straight away.

Paul
And then Caitlin will get a checklist out.

Megan
Exactly. I imagine as well, just for for reference as well that you should let your solicitor know ahead of viewing that you're going to view your property. Just so that they're like ready for questions?

Caitlin
Some clients do and some clients will e-mail me and say I've seen this property, I'm going to say it next Tuesday. What do you think of it? And I will have a very quick look and say, well it looks good. I've had a very quick you know, high level view of the home report. Have a look at this. Other clients don't, they just get in touch and say so it's probably last night what, what, what do we need to do you know, could you deal with it straight away. So I think it comes down to to people. Some people are a lot more cautious and want to know everything upfront. Other people just see something in the ESPC and off the go. So it it varies but you know the the joy is with the ESPC straight away I can get the home report you know all the contact details there. If I need to phone another solicitor we just move very quickly. But the the, the I think the key thing is get get somebody decent in your corner and get a decent ESPC solicitor in your corner you know and that that's very important.

Paul
And I think from what you're saying there is, well it's about getting them as Amy said earlier, early isn't it? Because it's almost when they come to you say right I've seen someone who needs to make an offering that well you're not a client yet so we've got other things you you really want to be that we would prefer that is done.

Caitlin
Yeah absolutely. We would prefer that is done And it it just takes the stress out of the situation and it it it doesn't happens you know first time buyer for me or any client or for me, I've seen this house. Can we make an offer and if they're not an existing client, say, well, we need ID, we need evidence of source funds and you're getting a gift from, you know, your parents, right? We need their ID and everything. Ideally we want all of that because...

Paul
Because in that window potentially you could be trying to gather the information. Everybody comes along ready to go and we we wouldn't advocate, you know, but that could happen. Life happens like that, doesn't it?

Caitlin
So it does. And our compliance requirements are so strict these days And you know, with the law, society and just in general in the world, you know, we're very compliant every now. So if if somebody gets in touch with us, in says we're thinking about house, we're just starting to look, we can get all of that done and dusted so that when their phone means that we've seen this house, all I need to do is look at the house, pick up the phone and I don't need to think about ID and compliance and it's stressful for them. I have to say we don't really enjoy it either. But you know, it happens and we can do it. But I think for a buyer, for a client, it's much easier if it's all done.

Paul
I think we'll call this the go early episode.

Megan
So if a first time buyer's offer has been accepted, what is the process in Scotland? What kind of happens from there from an accepted offer?

Amy
Missives. I mean, this is over to you.

Caitlin
So yeah, once an offer is accepted, I would say to my client, right, what will happen now is the offer's been verbally accepted, but we'll get a formal written acceptance and in the title deed so we can start the conveyancing process. And so I'd say to my client, what you need to do now is go back to your mortgage broker and say I've had an offer accepted, here's the home report and get going with your full mortgage application because before you find the property, your mortgage in principal as it's called, is based on your affordability alone. But once the offer is accepted, you have to go back to your broker to do a full mortgage application based on your affordability and the property itself. The two then go hand in hand. So for me, that's what I always said to the client, get back to that straight away because we need your mortgage offer as soon as possible. And it to be to be able to get into concluded missives and whilst they're doing that we get in the title deeds and the formal written acceptance and we keep the conveyancing going in the meantime. But for me that's key for them.

Megan
And how long does does that process normally take?

Caitlin
That's the billion dollar question. It it varies you know and it depends what date of entry is agreed. You know, at the minute I'd say we're sort of running 8 to 10 weeks, maybe a bit quicker. Mortgage offers, it depends on the lender. Some we get them in really quick, some just take a bit longer depending on their volume of work. So it's difficult. The the ideal is always to get into concluded missives as quickly as possible. I'm sure Amy will back me up, yeah, always get in as quickly as possible. But we need that mortgage offer to be able to do it and the convincing needs to be fairly straightforward. If it's not, it can slow the process down. But a good solicitor keeps you informed. You know if we have any bumps in the road, I have to say to I'm sure other agencies and like we at Gillespie Macandrew, we will just say This is why we're not concluding misses yet. You know we need this. We need alteration stuff. We need that. Communication is key particularly for your first time buyers because they've never, you know, they've never done it before.

Paul
I don't be frustrating for them but you are acting in their best interests.

Caitlin
Yes. Yes. And sometimes you have to say to your client, look I know all you want to do is conclude missives. You're terrified you're not going to get this house, but equally when you come to sell, we need to make sure that all these points are fine. Otherwise it becomes your problem. And I'm not doing my job properly if we don't sort them right now.

Paul
And you mentioned the mortgage offer there. So you wouldn't conclude about mortgage offer because really you're committing your clients for something when they haven't necessarily got absolute even though they've had approval at the beginning. That offer really is the thing that you hold onto, isn't it? I wouldn't imagine.

Caitlin
I know it absolutely is because if if I was to conclude message from my clients and then the lender for some reason decided not to lend, then they're, you know, they're binding to buy this property and they'd be in bridge a contract, but they wouldn't be able to afford to buy it because they don't have their mortgage offer. And lenders in this economy, I suppose in the world that we live in now, they change it. You know, their rates change all the time. Their risk indicators go up and down all the time. And people who think they can get a mortgage then maybe for reasons, personal circumstances change very quickly too. So we always want to know that that mortgage offers there.

Paul
Yeah. But once you've got that in your hand, you're you're good to go.

Caitlin
You're confident. Yeah, you're confident. Yeah, You're confident and you know your deposits in place, you're confident.

Megan
Well, something that we like to ask in these episodes is if you guys have any good news stories from any first time buyers?

Amy
I mean, I think the good news for first time buyers at the moment is that the market is significantly calmer than it's been in recent years. There's a huge amount of choice available. Had a quick scan on espc.com earlier and there's something like 514 fixed price properties on there at the moment, so you know, that really simplifies the system and can make things very straightforward for first time buyers as well. So yeah, good opportunity to step onto the property ladder with a bit of breathing space, a bit of time on your side. Things aren't selling quite like hotcakes like they were. Percentage being paid over home reports much lower than it was. So yeah, I mean that's the good news story for first time buyers at the moment is choice and timing is very much on your side. Lots of good success stories from you know people taking that first step onto the property ladder that they've either been able to buy a better property than they initially thought they were going to be able to buy or that the process has been you know really straightforward for them because it's been clearly explained by their solicitor. So lots of nice feedback like that. But yeah. I'm not sure if there's a a unique one.

Paul
Have you have you heard this I mean you mentioned fixed prices then we've spoken a lot about that with your your seller's hats on. Have you had any seller that's accepted an offer below the fixed price?

Amy
Yeah that does happen.

Paul
So there's yeah that's an interesting situation happens.

Amy
I mean people people buy and sell houses for myriad reasons. You know it's not just about the the property market going upwards or whatever that trajectory might be that the the mainstream media get absolutely fixated on. It's you know the the reasons for moving might be that they've found another property that they want to to buy and they can afford to take a little bit less because they're not having to pay as much over home report value on the one that they wanted to buy that they were going to have to pay That there's a bit of flexibility because they are selling to a chain free first time buyer who can you know work well on time scale as well as on the finances. So there's, you know, there's currencies other than money involved in buying property.

Paul
You're absolutely right, Peace of Mind and time. Yeah, absolutely. That's good. Now it's interesting to hear that there are offers. Again hope for first time buyers out there that they can offer and potentially below the fixed price and it would be considered.

Amy
Yeah, I did see one question recently that I think is worth addressing is that if that fixed price is underneath the home report value, you can only mortgage against the value that you're buying for. You can't then take a mortgage up to the home report value and you know have a better deposit or whatever. That's not going to work. You know the, the mortgage lender is lending on either the home report value or the purchase price, whichever is lower.

Caitlin
That's a really good point because some some buyers really struggle to get their head around that. Yeah. And yeah, definitely that's the big one.

Paul
OK well, we're going to ask you know what's the outlook for first time buyers. But I think we've, we've, we've discussed that.

Amy
It's good.

Caitlin
Yeah, yeah, it is good.

Paul
And as you say, it comes down to circumstances doesn't it, when it's right for a first time buyer to buy. You know, we saw this debate, didn't we? We're talking about last week on the show. Weren't we about people saying, well, we're going to wait off till the house prices drop even further or drop further or drop.

Amy
Meanwhile you're paying rent to a landlord that's going up and up and up potentially. I mean, I know there's rent caps and various other things, but new rental properties coming onto the market are more expensive than they have ever been. And the sooner you start paying your mortgage and you're paying off your mortgage, that's money in your pocket and not the landlord's. So once you've got that deposit saved and you're ready and in a position to buy crack on, there's no point waiting for the market to to to crash or whatever you might be hoping. And particularly when you look at Edinburgh as a historically extremely resilient market, we're buffered by our status as a capital city. We've got really good projected population expansion here. You know Edinburgh and the Lothians population expansion represents 75% of the population expansion for the whole of Scotland. There's a finite amount of property in central locations as well, the geographically small area hemmed in by the Pentlands in one direction and the Firth of Forth in another. So the opportunity here to buy a property and for that to be a sound investment as well as a place to live is good. But I think if you focus on having a place to live that you can afford, then you're not gonna go far wrong.

Paul
What a great place to leave it, I think. Caitlin, have you anything else?

Caitlin
Just what Amy said, Really.

Paul
Just talk to me early!

Caitlin
No, absolutely. Get organized. But I agree. What's the point in waiting? You know, the situation changes all the time. And I I think you're right. And rents are going up and up. And quite often, you know, I have clients who say to me, do you know our mortgage payments are actually going to be cheaper than our rent? Yeah. And they're delighted. And as you say, you're paying somebody else's mortgage. It's dead money. You're just throwing money away. So if you're in a position to buy, just. Yeah, get on with it.

Paul
Yeah. OK. Right. I think we will leave it. That's a great tail end of the show, as you know.

Megan
Thank you both so much. I think there's lots of useful information there for any first time buyers.

Paul
I enjoyed that. Thank you for coming in. We'll have you back definitely. And yes, thanks for your time. Speak to you soon. Cheers.

Paul
So thanks for listening. We hope you enjoyed that and we found that very informative and it's great to speak to the people who are on the ground dealing with these things every day and hope for first time buyers. I mean that should be a little motto we have and and it should be our mission statement. But I thought it was interesting when they spoke about fixed prices and has been accepted below the fixed price.

Megan
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. As Paul said, hopefully that gives you some optimism going into the market as a first time buyer. And as both Caitlin and Amy said, you should get a solicitor in place as soon as you can. So if you're looking to find a solicitor, you can head to espc.com to hit on the agents tab and you can search by area and you can see all your local ESPC solicitor estate agents as well, definitely.

Paul
So when you leave school, get yourself a solicitor and a job, pass your driving test and then one day buy a property. But no, I think they did make the point really well about getting the solicitor. Really just put you in a very strong position when you're negotiating.

Megan
Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, as Paul said, thanks for listening. If you want to leave a rating or a review, if you enjoyed the episode, please do so. Otherwise, we will see you next week.

Paul
You will.

Megan
Thanks.

Paul
Bye.

Megan
Bye.